Working in PE is hell on earth
The insane stress of missing one small detail and causing a deal to fall apart, the dread of defending another deal to the IC, the politics, preparing agendas, taking notes, getting that intralinks notification that the data room just opened at 7pm on a saturday, staying up until 4am creating models 10x more complex than could be possibly necessary, working 100 hours a week for weeks on end with no acknowledgement, competing with a bunch of type A sycophantic humorless freaks for brownie points, completely thankless, soulless work, wasting the best years of your life enriching people wealthier than you ever will be given the glory days of this industry are a decade plus behind us. oh the prestige of being a private equity financier
Comments (143)
so then why stay?
because I, like everyone else in this industry, have no clue who i am and what i want, and i'm too addicted to the lifestyle to get off without a plan
do you have adequate savings to quit and live a comfortable and normal life without needing to get a job within the next 3-6 months?
Thank you for saying what we're all thinking being in similar situations.
Get out of my fucking heeeeeeeeeead
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly - Robert A. Wilson
If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything - Winston Churchill
Brother if I were you, I'd keep banking those checks until you have a nut big enough to travel the world for a year. I suggest Mexico, it's not as dangerous as the media makes it seem (except for some rural areas, which you shouldn't be in anyways) and the USD goes a looooooong way to cover living expenses.
This is depressing.
I want to go into the medical field one day but also have time to pursue hobbies. Stuck in the buy-side like you and have the exact same thoughts.
Depressing. I hope the system fails.
"Because I want to fit in"
MF?
Yes, OP is a motherfucker.
Asking the real questions here
one of the worst parts is the realization that you're working for partners who never went through what you're going through. there were no cell phones, barely any email, and excel hardly existed when they were your age. now they email you from their hamptons home "would be interesting to see a scenario where..."
I've been thinking about this a lot, and you hit the nail on the head. The MDs have no sympathy for the analysts/associates because they never had it this bad. The VPs have no sympathy because they want us to suffer like they did. Everyone thinks every task takes a quarter of the time it actually does, and all they can muster is a half-assed "Thanks for all the hard work, etc. etc." IF THAT.
I'm in REPE, so I know our experiences may differ, but I've been burning the candle on both ends and running out of runway, too. My firm pays above market, yet I'm realizing that the sacrifices I've had to make are not worth it. I'm taking steps to leave before my body forces me to leave.
i imagine that those with an exit lined up into industry must surely be waiting with eagerness to get such an email on a friday night only to reply "definitely would be interesting, i might take a look into it on monday, have a good weekend!"
They prolly all in the Hamptons bragging bout what they made! Fuck you and your Hampton house! I'll fuck your Hampton spouse! Come on her Hampton blouse and in her Hampton mouth!
Y'all 'bout to turn shit up
I'm 'bout to tear shit down
I'm 'bout to air shit out
Now what the fuck they gon' say now?
I've worked for MDs who came up in the Excel + cell phone age and they are still equally psychos. Even if their bosses didn't get it, they still get wrecked, so we did too.
x2 pretty sure everyone in this industry has a screw loose. You know how every firm has that one really cool down to earth MD everyone likes. Know what I'm talking about? It's because the rest are actual psychos. But I'm addicted to spending money so hear I am in a self loathing Catch 22.
DELETE
Question I have is whether this is an industry norm or fund dependent, as Ive heard some MMs have insane, toxic cultures and heard some bigger funds have a better cultures (albeit with still long hours ).
A MF is going to be banking 2.0; more stressful than banking and as many hours. MM is all over the place. It's impossible to make a correlation. Some funds are chill while others are not. In general though, chill funds are much fewer than stressful ones.
Mega Fund and Middle Market ?
And this is why I'll happily stay for now in IB in my "low tier" bank that has apparently "shit dealflow" and "exits" according to this forum. It's still banking at the end of the day but at least I get to keep my sanity and free weekends.
Yea, free weekends, never leave
Exactly why I stay in my "boring IG credit" job. This job is easy, low stress, and pays for what I want.
Just curious do you know what comp for credit would be relative to IB
What is the official name for this kind of work? So I can google it.
Mind sharing which bank? I want to work there too
Wish I could say but then more competition for my cushy spot :( no hate I wish everyone can find somewhere that treats them well. We can't keep having these issues.
Clue on the bank?
That's what I'm saying lol. I'm gonna be making industry standard base (95) and a significantly lower bonus but that is only because I'm gonna be working 50-60 hours a week on avg lol
How is the salary compared to other top tier banks though ?
Same as street and like everywhere else. Not sure why everyone thought my comp is lower or something it's still IB lol
I am in the exact same position man and I am absolutely loving life --- zero stress, practically live on the golf course and paid the same as people doing 100 hour weeks. I have to pinch myself sometimes
THIS. Completely agree. Still in banking. But I have no worries about "Exits" and I keep my sanity
It can work both ways in a shit dealflow team. You can get that. Or you can get one where:
1. They keep "pitching" to the point it's probably client harassment and by pitches I mean, make you scramble 50 to 60+ pages and massage the league table data - if anything making it more obvious that we haven't closed a deal in years
2. Very heavy top + one senior freaking out every week about being (rightfully) fired and making you run "urgent" screens on companies he's never met before to put in his pipeline. Just strip profiles of these 200-300 tiny ass private companies, thanks. Oh and I know they don't speak english and probably don't even have a website, but can you get revenue numbers and breakdown and maybe EBITDA and NPAT margin as well? Don't stay up late, thx.
3. VP throwing fits that you can't get private transaction information that he can't get anyone in his network to tell him either, completely ignoring the fact that if you could, he would be working for you.
Welcome to Southeast Asia sh*t IB!
this may sound like BNP
Your point on sycophantic humorless two-faced bitches just hit me in the right spot. Oh baby, yeah, right there.
I sincerely believe everyone in this industry, except those who just somehow love bitch work at least for your first 6 years, will someday come to a crossroad: do you have the gut to actually pursue something you are passionate about, even if it's definitely less money at the beginning, or continue to be locked in golden handcuffs? I'm not saying this from a holier-than-thou PoV, as I'm in banking because I think it's a good way to make some $, and do some shit. Well well, movies are movies after all. There are not many wolfs on the street.
The hard part is knowing what you're actually passionate about.
Steve Jobs: keep looking, don't settle.
Well said! He who dares has an higher chance of winning the game.
Love this. 🙌👏👏
How many Desk Monkeys will walk into the fire of uncertainty to claim what is thiers??
Entrepreneurship isn't for the faint hearted. To many people want to be liked.
Sadly the heavy hitters can give a fuck about being liked. Including myself.
It takes big brass balls to go make shit happen. Just do it.
I have.
Appreciate your response and authenticity.💯
As an associate at a small LMM firm in a LCOL city I find my experience has been night and day compared to your comment. Really cool seniors who value WLB/family (which that culture trickles down to me), reasonable hours at 50-60 hour a week outside of deals sprints. Downside of that is I'm probably not working at a firm that is known at all in the industry and the compensation track gets a discount compared to MM/MF counterparts, also deal flow is probably not as intense to getting slightly less reps overall than I would at a busy shop.
Overall a sacrifice I'm willing to make as I learned pretty early on in banking that I don't give a shit about pulling in 70-80+ hours consistently for the money/prestige if that means sacrificing so many aspects of my personal life. Also when the lifestyle at your firm is so much better you can actually consider the long-term possibility of this career instead of just looking at it as another means to an end. I'd highly recommend looking down-market if you're willing to make those sacrifices for yourself for what is a much more sustainable lifestyle.
what's comp like as first year associate?
$150K all-in with co-invest and no carry
I'm in LMM in a higher COL city and started at $225K and have scaled up meaningfully from there. I enjoy my job and will last longer in this industry than 95% of people at MF, so in some ways my long term earning potential is just as high since I won't burn out. It exists, just have to find it
Good luck I am sure you will be fine
Yes - very tough to be in a position where you are making $300k+ as a 25 year old with a path to $1mm in your early 30s
There is more in life than money mate...
I agree but you are in PE. That's the point of working in PE
Most people joining PE will never get close to making $1m+ at their firm
This post is why finance never progresses.
FUCK this shit, I don't give a shit anymore. Fuck IB. Going back to enjoying my life. Not going to continue sacrificing the rest of my college just to join all the struck up finance bros.
You probably don't have to though. Take your shots but don't need to try as hard as it's made out to be tbh
I'm a shell of the person I was before this semester. I have gained 10-15 pounds, destroyed my sleep schedule, destroyed my mental and physical health, destroyed multiple personal friendships because I was so busy, hung around the finance bros for so long it made me into an stuck-up finance ass-hat that looks down on some many people, been watching way too much porn, and failed my first ever examI have a superday today but honestly, I barely prepared. I instead spent The Weeknd not giving a fuck, drinking with the boys and had a girl sleepover (first time in forever) . I already have a big 4 offer. Done sacrificing for this IB position that is just gonna have me work even longer hours and make me hate my life more. I spent so much time trying to get a IB offer to please my "finance bros" friends. But all they ever talk about is finance BS and have me feel like complete shut because I haven't gotten an IB offer. Made me into an arrogant asshat and started to look down on my roommates that have been there since day one, since they do not work as hard as me. I don't care anymore.
I would just find a good paying firm that doesn't treat you poorly.
I work endless hours at times and some weeks it's 50-60. I stopped going to prestige firms due to this and could careless at this point in my life. Many firms will pay a good 6 figure comp and the intense "prestigious" firms will still be there if you choose to leave for a year or two.
I left PE to work a PE portco ironically and it's been wayyyy better.
Interesting. What sort of responsability do do you have there? What sort of portco and what is your comp like?
I wear many hats.
My base is around the same but obviously I'm not pulling massive bonus + carry.
I also get to spend time on hobbies and make a mid six figs so I'm happy.
Sorry, I don't want to disclose to much
CORRECTION: working in PE as an associate is Hell on Earth
Good correction
Being a VP is just as bad. The path to the good life is looong
Second this. This is the biggest disappointment of what I've seen in PE. VPs in PE had it 2x worse than even the VPs I had in banking.
If we don't own up to our own decisions, good or bad, then what are we good for?
No idea what you mean by its hell, I'm a 42 year old MD at Apollo working 90 hour weeks with 3 kids and a divorced wife, but its all worth it when I get to tell you unprestigious shitbirds on this forum how prestigious my job is.
Convinced everyone in high finance are over dramatic pansies. Jesus Christ.
If you hate the job so much, leave and do something else. It's just a job. If you don't hate enough to quit then stay and continue milking more money out of the economy than most working people can. Don't just complain and do nothing.
you know, you can just quit right?
If PE doesn't carry the most prestige anymore, then what does?
Entrepreneurship is one of many answers - the glory of creation, and of willing an idea into existence through blood sweat and tears, is close to unmatched.
Everyday I read stories like this and thank my lucky stars that I chose to pursue software development where one can make 200k+ at 22 yrs old working 30 hours a week and jerking off for the rest of the week
Then why are you on this forum
There's some good advice on here once in a while, and it's entertaining content. Also I might try to eventually move into a quant dev role, and there are a lot of helpful resources for that on WSO.
200K+ at 22 in SD?
Better believe it. Both Google and Facebook are paying over 200k total compensation for new grads, and Amazon/Microsoft pretty close to that. HFT's pay even more, think 300-500k. No one wants to admit it because well, why would you want to dilute the market and increase competition for yourself?
So your welcome for admitting the truth. SWE is in the golden age right now. Btw I'm not even factoring possible stock appreciation.
because I, like everyone else in this industry, have no clue.....
I guess you don't have the cajones to join the hedge fund industry then
yup, just a cucked lbo boi forever
Somewhere in Africa right as you're reading this a 6 year old kid is mining lithium to profit the Chinese government under the watchful eye of a 12 year old with an AK from the next village over, which happens to be the same village the government official who signed the contract with the Chinese is from.
Plenty of other opportunities out there. Have you seen the crazy rounds that VC-backed startups are raising? Guess where they are spending a lot of that $$$... Yes it will be a pay cut but the gap is closing + equity upside (also downside). FWIW, engineers and product folks really aren't that far behind PE associate comp (if they're even behind, check out the stupid comp figures being posted on Blind) and I promise you hours are much better. Really, we all should have gotten CS degrees and gone into tech.
If you do want to stay in finance, maybe think about family office/allocators/secondaries. Pay cut, more boring work, but I don't think any LPs are working 100 hour weeks.
It's a fair point but having solid technical coding/CS skills is not for everyone. I tried it and was a below average student in a few classes I took to experiment if I liked coding in college. Hated it and I was terrible at it. Very different type of thinking to be good at it. A shit ton of tech/engineering talent to compete against for those top paying jobs. It's more about raw talent than the prestige of their previous jobs/schools.
IDK who threw MS at you, it's a fair point. But product roles are not that far behind SWE in comp and don't require the technical skillset.
Tiktok is paying $300k for a PM2 which my friend who's 23 was just offered (class of 2020). He got his current firm to match and works 30 hours a week stress free
Hey man - Really sorry to hear about your experience. Luckily, this is still a really attractive job market for finance, so lateraling so definitely an option. If helpful, my friends/colleagues have used a platform called officehours, and they've all had great success with it. Best of luck!
sheesh bro you sound super unhappy
this is no way to go through life
why not just get a job in corp dev, or strategic finance, take the salary/bonus pay cut (but also... if it's a younger high growth tech company, get some of dat equity upside), and work half the hours on far more interesting work in a much chiller environment? girls / normies will still see you as a high finance guy (if that's something you care about) and you'll actually get to have a life. seems like a no brainer for you. finding a job won't be hard - there are a shit ton of tech companies, corporate vcs, corp dev teams, strategic finance teams, etc, that would love to hire a buyout PE guy.
life's too short to be unhappy.
How hard is it to get these roles with just year of IB experience and is it common to be remote?
It's totally doable- my good friend from college did 1 year & 1 month in IB then got a cool strategic finance gig at an ~80 person startup that ended up getting acquired after 3 yrs and he loved it
remote will vary by industry and company size. i'd say as a general rule of thumb, software is going to be more remote friendly than deeptech/hardware, and smaller companies are going to be more remote friendly than larger companies.
Totally agree man but it's a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people who have worked their ass off just to get to that PE seat - it almost feels like you're "throwing something away" right? Also, pay cut is tough to swallow on a mental level - obviously nobody actually churns through their TC as a PE Associate but it's the concept of the high pay that sticks in our minds.
I'm saying this as a burnt Associate who's staying for now due to the highly flawed reasons above, but really want to leave. Would guess that most of us have never taken the time, even from a young age, to explore our passions and instead have had a gunner mentality for as long as we remember, distorting the perception of what happiness actually is.
Corp Dev at some places isn't even much a paycut.
PE associate life hack: get a few of those sham wow super absorbent towels and stuff them in your pants to soak up your engorged vagina.
Nice try trying to kill competition warding off prospective analysts. Well guess what, this hardo is not soft
Hilarious.
Sounds like someone should make a career change. If you don't feel like your adding to the mission or simply want to be there l? Or maybe your not leading your team as a productive happy Kick Ass as a Team Member? Leave.Being miserable is not healthy. I promise tying yourself to a Job that makes you feel imprisoned is a great way to sabotage your future. Don't take my word for it, I'm just a Entrepreneur who is a Investment (GP) Partner that is not making any excuses. Plus I've been a Self Employed business owner for 20years.
I'm just semi-drunk post Christmas Eve dinner but honestly stfu. Seriously. You're what I hate about this industry. Do you think everyone is just like you and does this job despite having no passion for it? This is the only sector I know of with so many people who absolutely hate their job but would rather keep doing it and bitching about it rather than being a man/woman and actually doing what you want in life.
This is capitalism, you're free to decide what you do in life. There's plenty of people like me who actually mostly enjoy what they do in PE. Go find something that you care about rather than trashing the careers that aren't for you.
(Guy who does lower middle market buyouts of landscaping businesses thinking his experience is anything comparable to where I've worked)
(Then go do lower market landscaping buyouts and trade some comp for QOL).
Wrong, I literally work at a MF
Spot on.
Folks stay in it because they view themselves to be the "lucky ones" who are somehow "awarded" the opportunity to one day become MDs / Partners pulling in the "big bucks". Ultimately, like anything, this is a job… that pays extremely well. Either you buy into the value prop or you don't. It's that simple.
If you feel PE is fucking Hard and you feel like killing yourself???
Here is food for thought.
Try Fighting Isis in the Mountains of Afghanistan While Partnering and Fighting alongside your enemy The Taliban to kill ISIS Terrorists..
All things considered..
That's fucking stressful and Hard Core.
I think people can easily survive PE.
Just thinking out loud as a Combat Veteran. ⚔️🇺🇸⚔️
Amerimutt moment
Oh stfu
Sooooo true about building senselessly detailed models. The obsession for example which I had to deal with, was modeling every single SKU/comparable unit by geography. This lead to absolutely insane Rev / COGS builds which spanned multiple tabs, grew model sizes exponentially, and more importantly took away from my ability to do literally anything else in my life. Whenever we took these models etc to IC, the VP would always act like us being able to toggle sales growth in some asinine location would affect the overall investment thesis (hint: never did). Never once did we add or create value by going this deep on the model. But this was everyones way of feeling like we "bottomed out" all the risks. Once I pushed back on this and got what was perhaps the douchiest thing anyone has said to me in my professional career about how this was the "big leagues" and that's just how it went down. He said that specifically to me btw because I came from a MM firm to a MF as he admitted at drinks later in the week that he just "wanted to push me more and more".
It's not that PE is "hard", it feels like it is made unnecessarily hard by the GP/IC and ridiculous demands/scrutiny of every last detail. 50% of the work and close to 100% of the stress seems to be internal and related to managing the IC group / providing deliverables versus managing external parties and working with management to grow enterprise value.
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